Erin: Hi, Camille, how are you?
Camille: I’m good, how are you?
Erin: Very good, thank you so much for coming on the Healing for IBS podcast today, I really appreciated it.
Camille: Of course, yeah.
Erin: Yeah, I would love if we could start by you just introducing yourself, explaining what your connection is to IBS, and, you know, just, like, a little brief overview before we get into the nitty-gritty.
Camille: Yeah, of course. Okay, so I’m Camille. I had IBS for over 15 years, so from the age of 13 to just about…
Camille: Less than a year ago, so my flavor of IBS was IBSC, so IBS constipation, and it was pretty severe, like, I’m sure we’ll get into it in the questions, but…
Camille: Yeah, it was pretty severe, and then throughout my journey, I found different ways to heal it, and now I don’t associate myself with having IBS.
Camille: So, yeah, that’s kind of my journey in a nutshell.
Erin: 15 years, that’s a long time.
Camille: Yes.
Erin: That’s like… cause… cuz, do you mind if I ask how old you are? You look quite young.
Camille: Yeah, so I was 13, around 13 when that started, and now I’m almost 30, so… yeah.
Erin: Okay, so… It started when you were 13, so, like…
Erin: do you remember the difference? Like, what your life was like before, in terms of after? Like, what was the shift?
Camille: So, it’s a good question, because I was so young, like, I feel like my whole…
Camille: adult life, adolescent life, has just been the memory of symptoms and the pain and all that. I don’t have a good recollection of what my life kind of felt like before that.
Camille: But now, obviously, I don’t have chronic symptoms, so I know what it feels like to feel good in my body. But that is new, frankly.
Erin: Yeah, wow. So, that was such a long time. How did the symptoms affect your life? How did it affect your everyday life? I mean, you were going to school, your relationships…
Camille: Yeah, it affected everything. Like, I’m sure anyone who’s had severe IVF.
Erin: Yes.
Camille: to this, like, it affected my day-to-day, just in terms of, like, I didn’t want to go out, I didn’t want to plan anything, because I didn’t know if I would be well enough to show up for events. I would cancel all my friends at the last minute, because I was, most of the time unwell.
Camille: Even career-wise, so, like, when I got, sick, or when I was my sickest, was when I was, like, applying to universities and kind of choosing my career.
Camille: And at first, I wanted to be a doctor, but then I was like, no, like, I won’t be able to make it through residency, or I won’t even make it to, the labs in, like, classes in university, like, I needed
Camille: I essentially chose my career based on what career could I do from home.
Camille: And what career could I do a lot of my schooling from home? So it affected my whole career path, and then even when I had a job.
Camille: like, it affected how I could interact with my colleagues, because I was kind of unwell and kind of hiding it, so I was a little bit more isolated. Obviously it affects relationships. Yeah, I essentially didn’t exercise for years.
Camille: Because it would make my symptoms worse, so it affected my health in that respect. So, yeah, it affected everything.
Erin: Yeah, it’s just, I think people who don’t have IBS, like, they don’t realize how many different points of… like, how many things you have to think about, and prepare for, and kind of, like, guard against.
Erin: how debilitating, and like, it’s a spectrum situation, so…
Erin: Yeah, I’ve heard, like, that sounds pretty… pretty intense.
Erin: So, like, who in your life, because you mentioned that it affects your relationships, and you also felt kind of, like, weird or uncomfortable talking about it, like, who in your life knew what was going on?
Camille: Yeah, it’s a good question. Like, obviously my parents knew, my family knew, but my friends, I was like… it was obvious that something was wrong, and I would, like, kind of…
Camille: like, beat around the bush about, like, oh, I just have a sensitive stomach, or maybe this month I had that intolerance, that month I had that intolerance, like, I would keep creating these excuses.
Camille: But I wasn’t always super frank with, people, because I was kind of embarrassed, and, like, I was kind of embarrassed that I couldn’t help myself, and that it is something that not a lot of people understand if they’re not, in that world, and if they haven’t experienced those symptoms.
Camille: So, yeah, I just felt, like, overall so misunderstood and isolated, so I didn’t tell a lot of people. Yeah.
Erin: And, like, how did that affect your mental health?
Camille: I’m just, like, thinking for so long.
Camille: Yes, so it hadn’t
Camille: toll on my mental health, mainly because I couldn’t even trust my own body, and I couldn’t even, like… I felt like I had no agency over my own life. I felt like it
Camille: Whole life was just trying to control and manage my symptoms and hide around them.
Camille: So, that, like, really, created a rupture internally of, like, how I saw myself, how I related to myself, like, there was a lot of frustration and anger towards my own body.
Camille: And, yeah, so… and it was obviously quite isolating, because I was not building very, authentic relationships, and I was not as social as most people are in that age, range.
Camille: So, it definitely had a toll, for sure, yeah.
Erin: What were the doctors saying?
Erin: What kind of help were you getting at that… at that time?
Camille: So, I did every doctor, I think. Like, obviously a lot of people who have IBS go through a series of different, traditional doctors, or,
Camille: Yeah, a variety of professionals, so I went through all the gastroenterologists, my family doctor, naturopaths, Ayurvedic practitioners, Reiki, like.
Camille: all of it. And essentially, like, a lot of the answers I was getting was…
Camille: All the tests are fine.
Erin: Like…
Camille: Can’t explain it. Do you want to try an antidepressant? Are you just anxious? Like, things like that. Which was, not only…
Camille: like, unvalidating, but it was also just not helpful, because I didn’t have any answers, I didn’t have any next steps, which contributed even more to that sense of loneliness and that sense of helplessness.
Camille: Yeah.
Erin: Yeah, it’s like, yeah, I’m anxious.
Camille: Yeah.
Erin: But, yeah, I’m stressed, like…
Camille: Yeah.
Erin: But you, like… Yeah, I got a lot of the same thing, and it was,
Erin: it just felt like, what do you… that… yeah, it’s exactly like you’re saying, like, it just feels so…
Erin: demotivating, and like, what am I supposed to do? You know, and you don’t know… I had a lot of mistrust, too, because it’s like, what do you mean it’s stress-related? And now I see it was stress-related, but the way that they…
Erin: went about carrying that message was, like, with a real… I just felt like, are they just… are they just making this up, because they don’t know what else to say, and so they’re just saying it stressed, because
Erin: just saying it’s stress, or is it anxiety, or do you want antidepressants feels sometimes… feels like kind of like a band-aid.
Erin: At least that’s how it seemed to me.
Camille: Absolutely, yeah, and I had the same thing, like, okay, yes, it’s stress-related, maybe, but what am I supposed to do about it? And just telling a client or a patient, like.
Camille: just stress less goes absolutely nowhere, as we all know. Like, it’s such a deep process to rewire your nervous system to become
Camille: In a place of safety and trust and ability to tap in that rest and digest.
Erin: That process needs guidance and steps and coaching and all of that. It’s not just a…
Camille: oh, you’re just stressed, take a pill or relax. Like, medication obviously can have a space, and I’m definitely for medication if that’s needed, but I do feel like it’s a much bigger process than that.
Camille: And it’s often so minimized and, not properly taught to the clients.
Erin: Or probably even to the doctors, you know?
Camille: Exactly, like, they’re all doing their best.
Erin: Yeah, yeah, that’s how I feel, too. I’m like, well, like, they didn’t… they didn’t know, you know? So, what… what do you feel, like, what was a… what was an initial turning point, or what was something that…
Erin: kind of initially gave you hope that healing was, like, happening, or possible, or… I’m curious what that first kind of shift was for you.
Camille: Yeah.
Camille: Unfortunately, it’s not, like, a one-time thing or a linear process for me, like, it was over many years, so I’d say, like, the last four years, I, like, slowly started that process of, like, really investigating
Camille: the nervous system, the vagus nerve, studying about it, all of that. And I’d say, like, the first year, I was just consuming content. Like, I was just, like, consuming healing stories, consuming books about
Camille: The nervous system, and books like…
Camille: the divided Mind, like, John Sarno, all of his TMS type of work, and, like, really believing it, like, believing that that was probably a really key pillar for my healing, but my error was that I was just reading and not implementing, so I was just.
Erin: with learning.
Camille: about all of this, but I was too dysregulated, frankly, to take the time and, like, do it for myself.
Camille: And, like, too impatient, so…
Camille: that, slowed me down, for sure. And then, yeah, I honestly spent probably over, like.
Camille: $50,000 on different programs and nervous system programs over those next
Camille: 3 years after that first year, and each one of them, like, gave me a tool or a perspective or framework that helped me, and I could see progress in my…
Erin: Symptoms, and my way of being, and all of that.
Camille: But I’d say it’s really only about a year ago that I was able to, like, put everything together, make sense of it, implement it, and, like, really give myself the space and the time I needed to heal, and, like, put boundaries on my time.
Camille: And really put in the healing work, and then that’s really what did it. So, after a couple months.
Camille: Slowly, my symptoms, dissipated, and then there was a day in, I think, June, I was like, oh my god, I haven’t had a symptom in, like, 2 weeks. Like, what is this?
Camille: And then kept going, and I’m still good, so… it works, it’s just unfortunately not a magic pill, and not quick. But it does work, so…
Erin: Yeah, and I imagine it’s a spectrum issue, too, you know? You were suffering for 15 years.
Erin: So, like, maybe it took you 3 or 4 years to heal. You know, I was only… I was only suffering with IBS for maybe… I think it was, like, 2 or 3 years? So my healing was quicker. It was, like…
Erin: maybe over a course of a year or two, when I started being like, yeah, I’m kind of… but it’s, you know, it’s probably in terms of, like, how deeply rooted it is, and how long… you know, it’s like you’re unwinding something.
Erin: that stuck like that. And, of course, like.
Erin: where did yours originate from, as opposed to mine, or someone else’s? It’s just… it’s so… it’s such a… like, it’s so infuriating, but it’s like, when you look at it from the other side, it’s… now I look at it, and I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s so fascinating, too, like…
Camille: Totally, Anne.
Erin: How unique we all are, and how many…
Erin: how many factors that go into why it starts, and into how it can be fixed, and how unique everyone is. You had mentioned… you just mentioned something that I hadn’t heard of before. TMS? What is that?
Camille: Yeah, so that is the original… so I think of John Sarno as, like, the pioneer of mind-body, medicine, and he was essentially a really key advocate in this space of…
Camille: trying to understand the mind-body, disorders. So, a big one is chronic pain, IBS, there’s so many of them. And he labeled mind-body syndromes as TMS, so tension myositis syndrome.
Erin: Oh.
Camille: And his theory, it was essentially that stress creates different, or lack of oxygen to different parts of the body, which creates symptoms. That was, like, later disproven, but his whole work on
Camille: understanding mind-body disorders, and he labeled it TMS, was really, a key point in, I think, our medical system to try to better understand these syndromes.
Camille: Hmm.
Erin: Thank you, because I hadn’t… I’d love to look into that. I haven’t heard of him. I haven’t read anything of his, so…
Erin: So… You were mentioning that you spent a lot of time and money and effort
Erin: Over several years, working on regulating your nervous system.
Erin: And working with different practitioners or programs.
Erin: I do want to get into that, but before we do, were you, like…
Erin: what was your diet like? Did you change the weight? Do you feel like food had anything to do with…
Erin: healing or lifestyle? Was there any, like, food lifestyle stuff, or was it mostly, like, nervous system for you?
Camille: Yeah, so it’s a good question. So definitely, there were so many periods of my journey where I would try different diets, or restrict certain elements, or food, or food groups, or literally any diet you can think of. I’ve probably tried it.
Camille: And, like, all of them would work for a little bit, and then not work, or not work at all. But nothing.
Camille: Was, like, consistently helpful.
Erin: Mmm.
Camille: Which was another big flag for me, that it was not food-related at all. And, like, for 5 years of that, I was convinced that I was lactose intolerant, because I would always get
Camille: issues after I would eat dairy, and now that I’m regulated, I literally have cottage cheese and Greek yogurt every day, because it’s my favorite food.
Camille: So I’m like, it definitely wasn’t the food. My body was reacting to my thoughts and my fears around the food, because I had constructed these possibilities and these fears around food, because it makes sense, like, you eat something, you feel bad, you think the food is the problem.
Camille: Yeah. But personally, for me, it’s not food-related.
Erin: At all.
Camille: I will say, like, lifestyle-wise, sleep, is super helpful for me. But even if I don’t have a good night’s sleep, I won’t have a symptom. It’s just, generally, I feel better when I sleep, when I see sunshine in the morning, just the regular things.
Camille: And hydration, of course, but, yeah, for me, it was less those items and more my nervous system.
Erin: So, over the… what do you feel were, like, the top couple things
Erin: that you learned, or the top thing, because I’m sure you said it was a long process, it wasn’t one thing, and I really appreciate you emphasizing that, because I think also what happens for a lot of women who have IBS is that
Erin: They give up.
Camille: Yes.
Erin: They give up, and it’s… it’s like…
Erin: It’s so hard because you don’t know what to do, da-da-da-da, and all this process, and I could see it being easy to give up.
Erin: Especially if you’re trying to solve it over such a long period of time.
Erin: So, yeah, what do you think was most impactful for you?
Camille: Yeah, so I’ll say I gave up so many times, which is so long.
Camille: So, I would do, like, breathwork 10 minutes a day, but then I would go back in my stressed self for 23 hours and 50 minutes.
Erin: For the rest of the day.
Camille: And I was like, why is this not working?
Erin: Yay! So…
Camille: it sounds silly, but I feel like I did that for so many months, and it really set me back, because I feel like on social media, or just, like, quick things, we’ll just see, like, oh, do some breathwork, or go hum, or go sing, or go shake it out.
Camille: But that is maybe 2 minutes of your day, whereas when you’re healing your nervous system, you literally have to rewire your whole state of being, your whole way of being in the world.
Camille: Her whole.
Erin: way out of.
Camille: Showing up for yourself, and everything.
Camille: So, that brings me to what helped me, and I’d say the first thing was, like, alleviating my load, so I was a very…
Camille: tense person, when I felt well enough to do anything, I would just go full out, and I was very intense in my work, and I always had a to-do list with 10 things and all of that, so… a big thing was just reducing the pressure on myself.
Camille: setting better boundaries around my time, my self-care, all of that. And it sounds simple and boring, but I do feel like that was super important.
Camille: And then, the next step was, like, brain retraining, so really becoming aware of when I was entering into a dysregulated state.
Camille: So maybe I would feel that through my breath, like, maybe I just wasn’t exhaling when I was working, or I was… or barely exhaling.
Camille: Or, I was, like, pretty cramped up, or my, like, muscles had a lot of tension in them, or I had a lot of tension in my forehead, like, just picking up on the signs that told me that I was not in rest and digest mode.
Camille: And then interrupting those. So every time I would feel it, I would be like, okay, I need to interrupt it with some somatic tools. The somatic tools are body-based tools to be able to access, emotions and states through the body instead of the mind.
Camille: Whereas, like, a mindset tool would be, like, telling yourself to relax, or trying to visualize yourself relaxing.
Camille: Body-based tools are a bit different.
Camille: And then I would try to replace my state with a helpful one, so I would…
Camille: intentionally use other somatic tools, like, some common ones that people might have heard of are, like, orienting, so, like, looking around at the room. Self-havening is a good one, where you, like, you brush your arms up and down, which stimulates the same…
Camille: neurochemicals, as if you were getting a hug, things like that. So it was really, like, just being aware of my states, interrupting them all the time throughout the day.
Camille: And then replacing them with, like, more helpful rest and digest. And the more you do that, the more your brain
Camille: unwires its old patterns of dysregulation, and then adopts this new patterns that you’re teaching it of.
Erin: rest.
Camille: Digest mode is the mode that I’m most often in.
Camille: So…
Erin: Oh, my God.
Camille: that was a big part of it. There’s more to that, like, I also did a lot of more, like, deeper work of, like, inner child work. I used the IFS framework, which is the internal family assistance framework, to kind of
Camille: Go heal those wounds, or childhood wounds that were keeping me in a state of fight or flight, or hypervigilant.
Camille: So yeah, that’s a bit of my process in a nutshell.
Erin: Yeah, my husband is actually an IFS therapist.
Camille: No way!
Erin: Yes, yes, he did. He was working for, I don’t know, the past couple summers doing… helping with the trainings and stuff, so I know a lot.
Camille: Yay!
Erin: Ugh, it’s so… it’s so powerful,
Erin: It is very powerful, but it… it can feel really… it can also feel really weird, like, if you’re not used to it, and, like, what you mentioned, too, about, like, the breathwork, it’s like, when I first was diagnosed with IBS, like, I could not meditate.
Camille: Hmm.
Erin: Yeah, meditating would stress me out more than anything, and I’d be like, I need to relax, I need to, like, meditate. But I realized, I’m like, this is not working for me.
Camille: Yep.
Erin: Because I’m just so… I’m so worked up, you know? And sitting here and breathing and having these thoughts is just…
Erin: it was counterproductive for me. It’s like I had to go, like you, I had to go in it in a different direction.
Camille: Yeah.
Camille: For sure. Yeah, so a big part of, like, my process, because I was mostly in fight or flight all the time, a big thing I had to do was find ways to discharge that sympathetic energy. So, some techniques that, people might know, like, the most common one is just shaking, like, shaking your whole body, to discharge that energy before even trying to do anything like meditation, because same for me.
Camille: I could not meditate more than 10 seconds if I’m dysregulated, so definitely need to use some somatic tools to downshift my state into, rest and digest before I can even attempt breathwork or meditation or all of that.
Erin: Yeah, and I found that what really worked for me, too, was doing
Erin: like, guided meditations, like, really, like, just, like, explicit, short things, but it’s like, just laying there, trying to breathe and notice my thoughts was… was really stressful for me, but having, like, a guide, or where you’re visualizing and things like that, but…
Erin: I absolutely relate to… like, food was helpful for me, but now everything that I cut out initially, I’ve been able to bring back in.
Camille: So, and gluten was the last one for me. I thought, I’m never gonna be able to eat gluten again. But, like, 6 months ago.
Erin: Now I’m eating it.
Camille: Amazing!
Erin: I know, I’m just like… and I live in Italy now, so it’s just like…
Camille: Yes.
Erin: Come on, it’s such a bummer to, like…
Camille: Yeah.
Erin: I’m at the house, and they’re always, they always have pasta, and I’m just like, I’m gluten intolerant, and they’re just, you know, it’s just inconvenient. Yeah.
Erin: So, yeah, but the nervous system shifts were really the big ones for me, and I think, for me, it took such a long time because…
Erin: I just was resistant to it, you know? I don’t know, I was just like, that can’t be it. And like, yeah, I’m stressed, because this is my life. My life is stressful. There’s nothing I can do about it. Like, my life is just stressful, you know? But I did not.
Camille: Hmm.
Erin: It was, at the time… how much I was contributing.
Camille: Yeah.
Erin: To my stress, and to my overwhelm, and, like, the little daily…
Erin: micro-choices, like you were explain… like you were explaining, that you used…
Erin: There’s opportunities to, like, interrupt that loop that you get into.
Erin: But it just takes a lot of… Consistency, and awareness, and dedication.
Erin: Yum.
Erin: Yeah, yeah.
Camille: For sure. Yeah, and the brain doesn’t want you to change. Like, the brain will always choose predictability over happiness.
Camille: So, if you’ve been this way your whole life, your brain is gonna be like, I just want to stay in fight-or-flight hypervigilant, because that has kept me alive so far, so it must be fine.
Camille: So it takes so much effort, like, actual mental effort to change that and counter that resistance. Because resistance is so normal when you think about
Camille: just brain science and neuroplasticity. Like, your brain wants to stay as is. Data school is always safer for the brain, so it takes, like, deliberate effort to change that.
Erin: Absolutely.
Camille: And…
Erin: So, now that you’re better, what kind of, like, new possibilities or joys has healing opened up for you?
Camille: Oh my, there’s so much.
Erin: Beautiful.
Camille: My life is so different.
Camille: So yeah, now I travel a lot more, and I look forward to it, which I never did. I used to be so nervous before traveling, but now I travel all the time, I travel with friends, I have a much stronger social circle, I just got engaged two weeks ago, so…
Erin: Oh!
Camille: going on. Yeah, I have different pastimes, so I became a Pilates instructor over the summer, so now I teach, on top of my full-time job, which is in finance.
Camille: And then, yeah, I have a lot of new hobbies, I go to dance classes, so I feel like life has really opened up, which is so nice, because I feel like I’ve waited so long to be able.
Erin: to do that.
Camille: Sink?
Camille: So, yeah.
Erin: Oh, that’s so beautiful! Congratulations, that’s…
Camille: Thank you!
Erin: Travel and engagement, and it’s just like, yeah, it’s just to be so closed up and limited, and then to have the world, in a way, open up to you. It’s gotta feel good.
Camille: Yeah, for sure.
Erin: So, we’re gonna close up in a minute, but what advice would you give to someone
Erin: who feels… who has IBS, who feels, like, hopeless or stuck right now.
Camille: Yeah. I guess my first one would be to not give up, and then a second one to fully understand that your body’s not broken.
Erin: Like.
Camille: These symptoms are messages, and they’re beautiful, like, it’s a beautiful thing that your body’s talking to you. It’s telling you that something’s not right, and that it needs your attention. So for me, like, it was telling me that my rushing, my hypervigilance, my overwhelm needed to be addressed.
Camille: And my chronic patterns of dysregulations needed to be addressed.
Camille: And I didn’t listen to it for a long time, and I didn’t know how, and I didn’t have the guidance, so I’d say, like, do your research, find a guide that you trust, that you resonate with, and just don’t give up on yourself.
Erin: Oh, yes, I totally agree, I totally agree. It’s this… it’s this combination of, like, persistence and letting go. It’s like this weird…
Erin: Like, tightrope that you have to walk, because…
Erin: sometimes if the energy is like, I’m doing this, I’m healing this, it’s like, yes, yes, keep going, keep trying new things, but also, like, you have to, like, let go a little bit, too.
Camille: Yacht.
Erin: No, what, you know?
Camille: Absolutely, because if you bring the same intensity to your healing journey, you’re gonna stay stuck, which is another big lesson I had. I needed to bring safety, caring, compassion to my process, not intensity, checkbox, to-do list, I need to heal this way, I need to heal by this time.
Camille: That never works. So, removing the pressure and the intensity and approaching your journey through, yeah, self-compassion, love, patience, it’s so important. But such a paradox, right? Because we want to heal.
Erin: Yes.
Camille: But we need to do it slowly.
Erin: Yes, absolutely, yeah, oh my gosh. So,
Erin: If there’s a woman out there listening who wants to get in touch with you, who wants to hear more about what you’re doing, what you’re exploring in this IBS realm, what’s the best way? What’s the…
Erin: What’s the best situation to look at? Are you on social media, etc?
Camille: Yeah, so right now I just have a blog.
Erin: it’s called from FlairToFlow.com, so that’s the best way to look at my blogs. I have a lot of just educational content on there. And then I do also do one-on-one coaching, so I have a couple.
Camille: clients, right now, which has been beautiful to see their progress as well. But I don’t have any socials or anything like that, I’m just pretty…
Camille: Focus on the client.
Erin: Cool. Yeah.
Erin: Really?
Camille: So, yeah, that’s it.
Erin: Great, well, I’ll definitely link that in the show notes so it’s easier for people to find, too.
Camille: Okay, amazing.
Erin: Great. Well, Camille, it’s been so great talking to you and connecting with you and hearing your story, and I just think… I really appreciate it, because I feel like… I don’t know about you, but when I was first in it, I really needed to hear from other people
Erin: Who had been through it, who had gotten to the other side, because I just wasn’t sure it was possible.
Erin: And to know that you had been suffering for so long, and that now you’re well, is just such a huge inspiration. It must be.
Erin: For so many women, so thank you for coming on today.
Camille: Thank you so much, and I’m so grateful that you have this podcast to share this to other people, so that, other people can have hope. But yeah, thank you so much for having me, it was so lovely.
Erin: Thanks, fight!
Camille: Bye!