Transcript to Today’s Episode:
Erin Maillo: That’s what we’re worried about.
Erin Maillo: Okay, hi Jennifer, how are you?
Jennifer: Hi, I’m good, how are you?
Erin Maillo: Great. Thank you so much for coming on the Healing Her IBS podcast today. I’m so excited because this is the first, year that I’m really starting. I’ve always wanted to do interviews.
Erin Maillo: and interview, like, real women who have had, or have had in the past, or still have IBS, just to talk about your story, like, what…
Erin Maillo: What has worked for you, what hasn’t worked for you, any discoveries, because…
Erin Maillo: it’s such a… for me, it was just a mystery, you know, and no one was talking about it, and I didn’t know, you know, and so I just think I’m really grateful that, you’re willing to come on and tell your experience for the listeners to hear some…
Erin Maillo: You know, first-hand, real… Real mess.
Jennifer: Yeah, great. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Erin Maillo: You’re welcome.
Jennifer: Excited.
Erin Maillo: Me too!
Erin Maillo: So, why don’t we start… why don’t you just tell us a little bit about yourself, what your life was like.
Erin Maillo: before you had IBS, before that became, like, a big part of your story, I guess, if you consider it a big part?
Jennifer: Yeah, definitely a big part. So, when I first got the symptoms,
Jennifer: I was in my 40s, and I was entering perimenopause, so there was a hormonal shift.
Erin Maillo: Okay.
Jennifer: And my… I had 2 kids.
Jennifer: I was at home, working at home.
Jennifer: Kids were young, And I started getting reactions to many, many foods.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: And I had severe cramping.
Jennifer: Sort of, like, Sharp, knife, like…
Jennifer: Pain in my butt, to me.
Jennifer: Bloating, where my friends would say, oh, you’re pregnant again! And I’m like, no, shop is closed, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: And, it was really rough. I mean, I had, like, you know.
Jennifer: gas, embarrassing smell, you know, this is.
Erin Maillo: Absolutely.
Jennifer: it was hard. And I didn’t know what was going on, so I got…
Jennifer: another layer of fear, because I thought maybe I have something that my grandma had, because people always said, well, you’re… you have some sensitivities, like, you know, your mom’s mom, and she was so fragile, and ugh. And she
Jennifer: I had colon cancer, and stomach cancer, and liver, you know, all sorts of things, so I thought, okay, maybe there’s a genetic component that I need to look into.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: But, before I went and got, like, colonoscopy and endoscopy and all that, I was like.
Jennifer: Always reading about nutrition and about health and well-being.
Jennifer: Both from a conventional and a functional standpoint, and I just went off gluten.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: I went off dairy.
Jennifer: And it helped… it helped a lot.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: But I still had… A lot of reactions to foods, which were causing
Jennifer: Not as much digestive issues.
Jennifer: Because I sort of had kept it at bay at that time.
Jennifer: Those severe symptoms went away when I stopped gluten and dairy.
Jennifer: And I’m not sure what else was happening. I maybe had changed jobs, maybe the kids were at school, you know, there was probably…
Jennifer: a lower stress thing that happened there, too? I don’t know. It’s a while ago.
Erin Maillo: Yeah, how… do you mind… how old are you now?
Jennifer: I’m 62.
Erin Maillo: 62. Yeah, you look great.
Jennifer: Thank you.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: So, go ahead, Jan, I’m sorry.
Erin Maillo: No, no, yes.
Jennifer: I go on and off.
Erin Maillo: No, no, that’s… that’s… that’s perfect. So, so you were in your early 40s, and so how long…
Erin Maillo: How long was it that you were experiencing symptoms before you cut out, gluten and dairy? And then, like, how long before you got the diagnosis?
Erin Maillo: Do you remember?
Jennifer: So, honestly, I didn’t ever get a full
Jennifer: real IBS, but I knew that’s what it was.
Erin Maillo: Yeah. So…
Jennifer: It was a number of years.
Jennifer: that I went back and forth, between…
Jennifer: you know, having really severe symptoms where I couldn’t leave the house.
Jennifer: to managing it.
Jennifer: You know, and I just figured it was gone, because… About
Jennifer: I don’t know, 10, 15 years prior, I had been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s after my son was born, my firstborn.
Jennifer: And I basically attributed it, oh, it’s, you know, I’m not regulated, and it’s the thyroid, and, you know, there’s this thing about gluten, and it can, you know, there’s…
Jennifer: molecular mimicry, and maybe there’s, you know, this and that, and then, you know, I didn’t…
Jennifer: I mean, I knew it was, I guess, but I thought that the root was the Hashimoto’s, and I knew that there was this…
Jennifer: Combination of things that brings upon autoimmunity, the leaky gut.
Jennifer: The hormone shifts and the genetic predisposition.
Jennifer: But, when I eventually went to get Food allergy testing.
Jennifer: At that time, it was not as popular, and it was a somewhat local company that had started up, and my functional doctor had recommended it.
Jennifer: And… I was, you know, ended up being…
Jennifer: reactive to, like, 45 foods, you know? So then I went on an elimination diet, because that’s what you did back then.
Jennifer: And it was really difficult, you know, keeping journals of everything I ate and reintroducing slowly. I did that for probably
Jennifer: You know, a year.
Erin Maillo: very soon.
Jennifer: district, and it was difficult because I had kids.
Jennifer: And I had to eat and prepare meals for, you know, for me and for them, and so as a result, you know, like, my daughter’s like, you’re crazy, like, you’re, like, like, you know, like, you’re a maniac about food and nutrition, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: But, you know, now she’s older, and she’s come around.
Erin Maillo: Oh, shit, yeah.
Jennifer: But it was several years, and then in between that, I would go back and forth to Europe, because I have a lot of family there, and my husband has family there, and… and when I went there, I didn’t have as many reactions to… we…
Erin Maillo: A cheese.
Jennifer: and wine, and stuff like that.
Jennifer: You know, so there’s that, and then…
Jennifer: getting the results, kind of swinging back to the allergy testing, they told me, well, you just have leaky gut. And I wrote it down, you know, I had to call them.
Jennifer: what’s happening? Have all these reactions to these foods. What is it, you know, what’s the root here?
Jennifer: And they said, well, you have leaky gut. And I said, well, what does that mean?
Jennifer: And they said, look it up. And I was like, my God, you suck, you know?
Jennifer: And remember, this was a while ago, so they were, like, in the forefront of starting that whole allergy thing.
Erin Maillo: Tesla.
Jennifer: foods and elimination diet, and they have, you know, books and videos and everything.
Jennifer: But I didn’t really understand that, you know?
Erin Maillo: Muhammad.
Jennifer: But in my case, That’s what I’ve tracked it back to.
Jennifer: Now, years later, knowing it intellectually, but really not having the time, the stamina, the circumstances to dig into it.
Jennifer: And because I had kept the IBS symptoms at bay.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: I was like, I’m good. I put my Hashimoto’s in remission.
Jennifer: I’m not having IBS symptoms, you know, I’m able to travel, I’m able to eat different foods now, and then…
Jennifer: It came back.
Jennifer: You know.
Jennifer: in… when I started reaching menopause, it came back, and I… you know, when I started perimenopause, people were like, no, you’re too young.
Erin Maillo: Because you were in… because you were in your, like, early or mid-40s, or…
Jennifer: Yeah, early 40s, and I was like.
Erin Maillo: No.
Jennifer: It’s happening, and it’s gonna be a long, slow ride, and that’s exactly what it was.
Erin Maillo: And this was before the, like, current menopause .
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: you know, I feel like every… maybe it’s just my social media feed, but it’s, like, menopause, menopause, perimenopause. Seems like in the past, like, year or two, it’s talked about a lot, but I imagine, like…
Jennifer: a lot.
Erin Maillo: 15, 20 years ago, not so much, or… I’m not sure.
Jennifer: so much, it was shoo-shoot, it was like, oh, no, no, no, you’re healthy, you’re fine, and this has been, like, the way
Jennifer: basically, people see you on the outside, and they’re like, oh, you’re fine, and like, even when I got the Hashimoto’s diagnosis, I, you know, I wasn’t presenting… like, you know, we have this concept of, like.
Jennifer: people who have conditions should present in a certain way, and it’s not the case. You know, we’re all extremely individualistic and unique.
Jennifer: You know?
Jennifer: so… Years ago.
Jennifer: thyroid was like, oh, you have a slow thyroid. Well, you should be overweight, your hair should be falling apart.
Jennifer: And, you know, you shouldn’t be depressed.
Jennifer: And… I, you know, I had… I wasn’t overweight.
Jennifer: I… my hair wasn’t falling out yet, you know? It wasn’t falling out. And so, yeah, I mean, there’s…
Jennifer: a lot of misconceptions and lack of attention or attentive care given, I think, to women.
Jennifer: About… around things that… are delicate.
Erin Maillo: And,
Jennifer: Not always easy to…
Jennifer: express. We may have shame around them, we may be uncomfortable, and people don’t want to hear it. They don’t have time. Doctors are like, just take this pill and, you know, go on your way.
Jennifer: And, yeah, so…
Erin Maillo: Yeah, and you had a lot of… a lot of different stuff going on to try to figure out, like, what’s the root cause, how are the hormones interacting with this, how it…
Erin Maillo: The Hashimoto’s, is that the… so did you ever get to the bottom of that? Like, do you feel that your Hashimoto’s… because I don’t know that much about Hashimoto’s. Did you feel it was connected?
Erin Maillo: or is connected to your IBS, or you feel it’s more separate, or you’re still kind of not sure?
Jennifer: Yeah, no, I think, or at this point, I think I’m pretty sure, because I’ve really dug in, and like I said before, in order for an autoimmune disease to express itself, you need, to have
Jennifer: leaky gut, which is gut permeability, and you need to have the genetic predisposition, and you need to, have this large hormonal shift. So, for me.
Jennifer: having had a first child via C-section, a lot of medication, some trauma involved in that,
Jennifer: Probably, it was postpartum thyroiditis.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: But… Having kind of grown up in this very scientific background, I thought… About the autoimmunity aspect.
Jennifer: I had testing, which they didn’t do back then, for antibodies, and they were off the chart.
Jennifer: So then I knew I had an autoimmune condition.
Jennifer: Which… Could, at the time, have been stopped.
Jennifer: And if I had looked at my gut, At that time.
Jennifer: you know.
Jennifer: It could have been a different story, but as it turns out, My healing journey has…
Jennifer: Had, you know, ups and downs, and…
Jennifer: My body’s been speaking in different ways for me to get the message.
Jennifer: So, my IBS… Is connected to gut permeability.
Erin Maillo: Hmm.
Jennifer: Now… that’s what I’m dealing with now, the…
Jennifer: A gut that’s been compromised for.
Jennifer: Many, many years.
Jennifer: And so… My feeling is that once
Jennifer: I get my symptoms of IBS, my current symptoms, balanced.
Jennifer: My microbiome balanced.
Jennifer: as I did…
Jennifer: 2 or 3 years ago, when it showed up, and then I thought I was in remission and had fixed it, which I did for the time.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: Then I think, you know, once the leaky gut issue, probably my autoimmunity will improve.
Jennifer: And… you know.
Erin Maillo: So, what are you doing now to work on your gut? Like, what’s the path?
Jennifer: Okay, so this time… I don’t have a protocol yet, because… I’m still… experiencing… symptoms where…
Jennifer: Like, I lost a lot of weight. Like, this time it was IBS-D, so…
Jennifer: I, like, you know, I had taken antibiotics in the past few months, I had other stressors.
Erin Maillo: And then I had eaten…
Jennifer: you know, on the streets of New York, in bad neighborhoods, you know.
Jennifer: So, I definitely had compromised my gut in a number of ways.
Jennifer: And as a result.
Jennifer: I lost… I’ve lost 15 pounds, and that is not cool. It’s not good at all, because I’m… you know…
Erin Maillo: You’re… yeah, you’re not a… you’re not overweight, you’re not…
Jennifer: I’m not…
Erin Maillo: I know.
Jennifer: I’m… no, I mean, I love food, I’m always trying to, you know, try food and eat food, and.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: So I became really weak, and…
Jennifer: You know, one thing is leading to another, so…
Erin Maillo: I don’t.
Jennifer: you know, this may be… I don’t know if you want to…
Jennifer: keep this in or not, but, like, if you look at women’s anatomy, and especially… I’m post-menopause, so that anatomy, it’s like…
Jennifer: it’s a delicate situation, so if you’re having IBSD, You have to be extremely… Vigilant about not…
Jennifer: Getting any of that situation into the front area, and.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: crazy, because after having two kids and post-menopause, it’s like, who created this? Because the anatomy is insane. Like, so,
Jennifer: So yeah, so losing weight and feeling weak, and I haven’t really been able to start a protocol other than
Jennifer: Just right now, I’m able to eat, protein, fresh protein.
Jennifer: Fresh, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: And vegetables, not starches, beginning a little bit with starches. So this has been going on since…
Jennifer: You know, a couple of months.
Jennifer: And so, you know, I’ve done a lot of testing, conventional testing, I’ve done the gut zoomer.
Jennifer: Which is pretty thorough about telling you what…
Jennifer: Uniquely is out of balance at the cellular level.
Jennifer: And then also what happened to me
Jennifer: post-menopause, but began in menopause, was I developed histamine sensitivity.
Erin Maillo: Mmm, yeah.
Jennifer: which is relatively common. A lot of women,
Jennifer: menopause or after have trouble, like, I can’t even have that glass of wine anymore, you know?
Jennifer: So that limited what I could eat, and I wanted to understand… The hormonal aspect in… in… You know…
Jennifer: So… I’ve begun just the testing, and then I
Jennifer: a new functional doctor. It’s a guy and wife, husband and wife team.
Jennifer: And nowadays, there’s quite a bit more information, and there’s quite a bit more acceptance of approaching, digestive issues like IBS, in a more comprehensive way, and acknowledging it as a real
Jennifer: Situation, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yep.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Rather than just, like, sweeping it under the rug and saying, yeah, I feel oftentimes like it’s very much like, what? What can we do?
Jennifer: Yeah.
Jennifer: Thank you.
Erin Maillo: Seriously, sometimes.
Jennifer: Yeah, and there’s a lot of anxiety, and sometimes depression, isolation, alienation that goes around with it. So, you know, most doctors are like, well, take this
Jennifer: For the discomfort, and then take this for your mental, you know, for your anxiety. And, like, they’re not really looking at
Jennifer: Root causes, and of course, those root causes are, again, very individual.
Erin Maillo: Mmm.
Jennifer: You know, yeah.
Erin Maillo: Very individual. That’s why I think it is probably quite difficult for the medical community, because, I mean, they would have to dig in so much, and give so much time across the board
Erin Maillo: Right. You know, into so many areas, into your mental health, into, you know, what’s going on in your microbiome, into your nutrition, into… I mean, it’s just so multifactorial that… it’s like, the more I learn about it now, I’m like, okay, I was upset
Erin Maillo: at the beginning, and I’m still not pleased with the way, like, most of the doctors treated me during that time.
Jennifer: Right, right.
Erin Maillo: Been a lot more, empathetic.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: I guess is the word. They most lacked empathy.
Erin Maillo: But I understand now more the position that they’re in with such limited time. They’re just kind of like, I just can’t get into all this, you know? Right. Yeah.
Jennifer: Well, I agree, I mean, definitely, and I… I’ve…
Jennifer: it sucks that that happened, you know? We should have been met with more compassion. But I also think…
Jennifer: They don’t know?
Erin Maillo: And… Yeah?
Jennifer: You know, and there’s also, unfortunately, a colonoscopy and an endoscopy is a big money maker, so if you can go to your gastroenterologist, and you’re, you know, if your primary can send you, and they can say, okay.
Jennifer: well, you know, we’ve looked at everything, and, you know, it’s fine, you just have IBS, just take this pill, or, you know, whatever.
Erin Maillo: Lakes, or…
Jennifer: It’s… it’s easier, but, like, spending the time and understanding and having the compassion and, you know, figuring out root causes and helping and hearing you and everything.
Jennifer: Is not something that… is generally…
Jennifer: Accepted and advocated in our healthcare system.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Well, thank you for talking so honestly, too, about the fact that, you know, your first
Erin Maillo: your first IBS, you know, symptoms coming up were during perimenopause in your early 40s, and then you, you know, you went through this process, and you did all of this work to investigate and to heal your gut, and now it’s happened again.
Erin Maillo: And it’s like, it’s… I think it’s a good… it’s a really good reminder that…
Erin Maillo: Even if we feel or think that we’ve quote-unquote healed.
Erin Maillo: It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gonna be forever, because we don’t know what… we don’t… we don’t know what’s going on inside of us, and we don’t know what kind of stress
Erin Maillo: Or what kind of life circumstances are gonna throw at us.
Erin Maillo: that, you know, I think that it’s quite common to hear of women having symptoms, and then, you know, going into some kind of remission, and then having a life circumstance and bringing that back.
Erin Maillo: But it must be frustrating, I don’t know.
Jennifer: It is, it’s frustrating, and
Jennifer: Yeah, it’s frustrating, and it’s also… a bit…
Jennifer: I don’t know what the word is, but…
Jennifer: demoralizing, maybe, because I’m like, oh, you know, the ego’s like, hey, I got this figured out, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yes.
Jennifer: then it hits you again, and you’re like, okay, well, what else do I need to learn on my healing journey, and how do I accept this?
Jennifer: And, you know, the symptoms were different this time.
Jennifer: And worse.
Jennifer: And, you know.
Jennifer: I needed to listen, and I now have the time to listen. I’m older, my kids are independent, they’re not in the house, my work has…
Jennifer: you know, I finished my contract, and I wasn’t planning on this time to focus on Health?
Jennifer: Other than being a health coach and guiding others.
Jennifer: But apparently, there was… there’s more for me to… to learn.
Jennifer: So, so what, what is the, what is…
Erin Maillo: that healing mean to you today? Like, what do you… when you say, like, there was more for you to learn, I know that you are in the process right now, and it’s… when you’re in the process, it’s kind of messy. You maybe…
Jennifer: Right.
Erin Maillo: I don’t have answers, I don’t know, but I’m curious if…
Erin Maillo: We have an intuition about that.
Jennifer: Yeah, no, that’s a great question. So one of the things for me, one of the currents that runs through my life has always been trying to balance, you know, left brain, analytical, scientific.
Erin Maillo: Tendencies and stuff with creative, right-brain, exploratory, process-oriented.
Jennifer: pursuits.
Jennifer: And I’ve always known that, you know.
Jennifer: I needed to do more of…
Jennifer: creative expression, and I knew that would be nourishing for me, but…
Jennifer: you know, I just… I didn’t have a lot of time, and I did some things. I definitely did some things, just like I definitely dug into my condition over the years and learned certain things.
Erin Maillo: But it wasn’t enough, and I was really out of balance, and the job, the contract that I had for many, many years was…
Jennifer: Totally left brain, and just, you know, up against judges and lawyers, and you gotta know your shit, and it’s really stressful.
Jennifer: But, you know, it was good, and because of my family situation, we needed that income.
Jennifer: You know, and that was… that was really important, and I guess I needed to get that out of my system and prove that.
Erin Maillo: I can do.
Jennifer: that, but, inside, internally, I wasn’t happy.
Jennifer: And I wasn’t… it wasn’t enough, like, the art that I did, or the creative little things here and there, it wasn’t enough.
Jennifer: So, I knew that my healing journey would have to incorporate creative expression, and I talked about that, you know, when I was doing the coaching, in helping other people. But, you know, it’s funny, like, you… you talk about things, you know, you… you have this plan.
Jennifer: But for me, I often feel like I may understand that intellectually.
Jennifer: And even to a certain degree, emotionally. But until I got to…
Jennifer: What was stored in my body, really on a cellular level.
Jennifer: And… Understood that, and how it then expressed many years later, as IBS, or as autoimmunity.
Jennifer: I wouldn’t be the type of healer that I wanted to be, so I have to go through this.
Erin Maillo: have to…
Jennifer: quote-unquote, suffer in this way. You know, not… I’m not a victim, you know, I’m…
Erin Maillo: being…
Jennifer: told… That there is more wisdom, and it’s up to me To figure this… Shit out, you know?
Jennifer: Or I’m gonna keep losing weight, and I’m gonna shrivel a lot away, and it’s scary, you know?
Erin Maillo: Yeah, cause…
Jennifer: down.
Erin Maillo: You don’t… you don’t have weight to lose, you know?
Jennifer: Yeah, I mean, the body really talks to you, and…
Erin Maillo: You know, yeah.
Jennifer: Louder, you know?
Erin Maillo: Louder and louder and louder, yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, it does. So… so that’s what I’ve been working on now, through poetry, and… through…
Erin Maillo: Mental mantras, affirmation, going into some of the mud.
Jennifer: of my background, which, again, I’ve done before.
Jennifer: But… I just… I didn’t get it.
Erin Maillo: It’s an onion, though, isn’t it?
Jennifer: It’s an onion.
Erin Maillo: You’re like, wait, I already… but I went to therapy for 3 years about this, and like… but it’s like, something else comes up, and it shows you, yeah, you understood a piece of it, you didn’t maybe get totally to the core.
Jennifer: Right. Like, understanding it on a somatic level is completely different than understanding it on a cerebral level.
Erin Maillo: Yeah, yeah.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: I totally understand that, absolutely.
Erin Maillo: So you’re almost at the point now where you’re like, okay, this is happening now.
Erin Maillo: But you’re understanding it almost as an invitation
Erin Maillo: From your body, to go deeper, to look at…
Erin Maillo: Like, what’s… what really needs attention? Like, what…
Jennifer: Yes.
Erin Maillo: calling you, like, internally.
Jennifer: Yes, and… and for example, leaky gut.
Jennifer: which I mentioned before.
Jennifer: is related to the IBS, has to do with…
Jennifer: Gut permeability, which is happening because, you know, the tight junctures that should be
Jennifer: Keeping you safe from foreign material.
Jennifer: are not.
Jennifer: Yes. So where does that come from?
Jennifer: Well… Sure, in my case, On a physical level, there were… genetic things.
Jennifer: lack of gut diversity to begin with, a compromised gut after getting, food poisoning, and then after traveling and doing a lot of… I did a lot of work, research, travel all over the world, so certainly caught different
Jennifer: microorganisms.
Erin Maillo: Cool.
Jennifer: which further compromised my gut.
Jennifer: But on a emotional level, that goes back to… The environment in which
Jennifer: I grew up, which was amazing in many ways, but in other ways.
Jennifer: I couldn’t digest it, you know?
Erin Maillo: and…
Jennifer: I didn’t have boundaries.
Jennifer: Right?
Erin Maillo: So…
Jennifer: You know, understanding that at a level of safety, or lack thereof, and speaking to that, and accepting it, not just
Jennifer: intellectually, Or, emotionally, But listening to your body, or my body, you know, honestly.
Jennifer: level, and respecting it, and, you know, hey, it’s okay, you know, you did what you had to do to survive, and in certainly
Jennifer: people have much, much worse situations. So that, and then just looking at each layer, not just the IBS, the leaky gut, the digestion, but the autoimmunity.
Jennifer: Whatever comes with that, and everything sort of exacerbates
Jennifer: one another, so it does become this… web.
Jennifer: But now, I think for the first time, yeah, I get it. I get it. Like this, and then there’s, you know, the autoimmunity, the lack of feeling safety, then I, you know…
Jennifer: So, it’s very interesting, it’s fascinating for me. On the other hand, it’s… It’s scary, too.
Erin Maillo: Yeah.
Jennifer: Right? Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Yeah, absolutely. I hear…
Erin Maillo: that it’s like, on the one hand, you seem to be in the place where you are now, to have already had gone through this experience before, and to have dug so deep into the science of it, and your body, and what worked for you. It’s like, now you’re coming back to it, and you can look at it with that lens.
Erin Maillo: You know, and it seems like you’re looking at it like…
Erin Maillo: with this breadth of experience, maybe, that you didn’t have the first time, and it’s… it seems… you sound… like, I understand you sound concerned, but also hopeful.
Jennifer: Right, I’m actually… I’m excited, because…
Erin Maillo: And interested and curious, you’re saying.
Jennifer: Yeah, like, on one hand, I’m scared. Like, I… in the morning, after, because I still have the symptoms, so, like.
Erin Maillo: that.
Jennifer: in the bathroom for, like, literally 2 hours, you know, thank God I don’t have a job to go to, and, you know, husband’s sleeping in the other room, you know, and I deal with that, I…
Jennifer: I come, I weigh myself, I’m like, oh, shit.
Jennifer: it literally… I lost more weight, and then I’ll go through the day, eat a little bit, you know, try to relax, try to… you know, like one of my convalescents, you know.
Erin Maillo: Literally.
Jennifer: old lady can’t do anything, and I freak out, and then… but I
Jennifer: and I weigh myself before I go to bed. I’m like, oh, good, I’m up 2 pounds, and then it’s the same thing, and then I’ll sit in my room.
Jennifer: likes…
Jennifer: This is freaking scary. And, like, my husband said to me the other day, a friend of mine called.
Jennifer: And, you know, just how you doing? You know, just checking in, and
Jennifer: She worked with me, so our contract, you know, ran out, and we’re like, what do we do now, you know?
Jennifer: Anyway, so she said,
Jennifer: you know, how you doing? And I’m like, yeah, you know, I’m good, could be better, you know, smile. And my husband’s like.
Jennifer: Tell her. You are not well. Tell her. But, you know, that’s the way I was brought up. I’m always like, how are you doing? You know?
Erin Maillo: Yeah, like, don’t, don’t focus on me, like…
Jennifer: Yeah, exactly. So, but the truth is, I’m, you know, like.
Jennifer: quietly scared shitless. But, on the other hand, I’m really excited because
Jennifer: I’ve been writing poems, like, insane amount. I am working with my brother, which is wonderful. He’s over in France, and he’s always done poetry, and very different voice than mine. I’ve always done prose.
Jennifer: and different…
Jennifer: pieces, you know, poetry never came naturally to me, but all of a sudden, you know, just writing a lot. So, on a creative level, and on a release level, and on a integrative, all of these things coming together, and I’m able to express it, that’s very, very healing.
Jennifer: And…
Jennifer: it helps me keep perspective, because, you know, some people can just say, you know, snap out of it, you know, get over yourself, like, I know you’re in pain, but look at what’s happening in the world, you know, like, stop.
Jennifer: complaining, get perspective. So, you know…
Erin Maillo: Who says that? Goodness.
Jennifer: Well, I mean, that’s kind of a…
Erin Maillo: like a… That’s vital.
Jennifer: that’s a societal thing, that’s how I… so that’s probably how I grew up. So… so I know deep down that if my microbiome… that my microbiome is so out of balance, let’s just look at what’s happening in the world, you know?
Jennifer: So, being able to kind of…
Jennifer: leverage what I’m going through to further understand the imbalances of the greater society and the greater world.
Jennifer: Right? Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Like, you’re connected to it.
Jennifer: We are, we’re connected to it.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Yeah, absolutely.
Erin Maillo: Okay, is there anything… I know we’re almost at finishing time, but I just want to… is there anything you feel like…
Erin Maillo: We didn’t touch on that you…
Erin Maillo: want to share? Is there anything for… maybe for a woman who is recently diagnosed, is confused, like.
Erin Maillo: Any, any… piece of advice or perspective? I mean, you’ve already shared so much, but…
Jennifer: I think it’s really important to…
Jennifer: to be persistent, and don’t give up. Trust your intuition.
Jennifer: If you go to… you can go to 10, 12, 15 doctors, just keep going. You will find the right support system, the right support team. It doesn’t matter what other people are saying, you just have.
Erin Maillo: You have to really, really trust yourself.
Jennifer: And look at the situation in different ways, you know, approach it differently, and learn as much as you can. And also, I think.
Jennifer: Give yourself grace.
Jennifer: You know, this is not an easy situation.
Jennifer: It isn’t comfortable for many different reasons.
Jennifer: And it’s okay?
Jennifer: You know, there’s no need to bother yourself or have energy towards shame or embarrassment.
Jennifer: It’s… you know, it is what it is, and you’ll, you know, you’ll figure it out. Just be persistent.
Erin Maillo: That is such good advice I haven’t thought about. It’s like, that’s… that’s a huge part of it. It’s just not… because there’s so many obstacles, you know? You’re right, it’s just like, you’re not getting answers, you’re not getting the answers, and you have to look in so many… but as long as you keep walking in the direction…
Erin Maillo: Of… and knowing that you don’t… you don’t have to stay sick.
Erin Maillo: Right. Forever.
Jennifer: Exactly.
Erin Maillo: You know, like, we don’t have control, but…
Erin Maillo: we don’t have complete control over that, but you’re so much more likely to get answers and move towards healing if you are persistent. And, like you said.
Erin Maillo: at the same time, balancing it with, like, that grace and the compassion for yourself and being kind for yourself, that it’s not something that you did
Erin Maillo: You know, I think I held that feeling, like, I’m being punished, what did I do wrong?
Erin Maillo: You know, to speak about, like, background or whatever, just feel like…
Erin Maillo: and all of that, like, shame and guilt and trying to place blame, it just didn’t help, you know? It’s just, like, wasted energy that now that I know more about IBS, it’s like it was probably doing a lot more damage than good, all of that negative energy and…
Jennifer: Right, right.
Erin Maillo: No. I mean, it’s…
Jennifer: Sorry, go ahead.
Erin Maillo: No, no, go ahead.
Jennifer: I mean, it’s understandable, you know, but we do beat ourselves up, and…
Jennifer: You know, the wisdom is in the body, right?
Jennifer: And we are not… taught…
Jennifer: In this society, and in many societies, to listen to the wisdom of the body.
Jennifer: You know, we approach things on a thought paradigm, a cerebral level.
Jennifer: Emotional level.
Jennifer: Which is normal.
Jennifer: But the body has wisdom, and it’s almost like we have to fight.
Jennifer: To clear out all these other reactions that were taught You know?
Erin Maillo: No.
Jennifer: Because so much of the healthcare system is not great, you know, is not very supportive. So we have to fight to seek the wisdom in the body, and in order to do that, we didn’t really discuss the nervous system connection to all of this.
Jennifer: But that is a big one, and when you said, you know, yeah, it doesn’t help, it’s understandable to be upset and, you know, to blame yourself, or to, well, why is this happening to me?
Jennifer: But, right, that doesn’t help because of the connection with the nervous system, and the nervous system has to learn…
Jennifer: You know, to… to relax.
Erin Maillo: Like, calm down, you know, and it’s like, you’re like, and you just, like.
Jennifer: I’m dead.
Erin Maillo: But that was… that was, to me, besides changing my diet.
Erin Maillo: learning during my worst episodes, because I was an IBSD, I was more constipated, bloated, and pain.
Jennifer: You’re.
Erin Maillo: learning that when I was in the worst time to just lay down on my bed.
Jennifer: Nope.
Erin Maillo: And just be like, it’s okay, like, I love you, I love you, I would just, you know, and I’m like, this is so cheesy, this is so weird.
Jennifer: You know.
Erin Maillo: But this acupuncturist told me, you know, you should put a hot blanket on, or a hot thing, and just…
Erin Maillo: And I didn’t understand, but I was just like, well, I’m just gonna do… what else, you know, what can it hurt? I mean, it didn’t take… it was hard for me to stick, because usually it would happen in the midst of, like, the bedtime routine.
Erin Maillo: You know, so to step away and be like, I’m just gonna go lay down for 20 or 30 minutes.
Jennifer: Right.
Erin Maillo: felt really hard, but I think that made a huge difference in my healing, just kind of the brain-body connection there, just to be like…
Erin Maillo: I know that you’re going into freakout, but, like, can you… can you, like, is it the end of the world that you’re, like, extremely bloated? Can you just, like…
Erin Maillo: love yourself instead of going down, I would just, what am I gonna do? This is gonna last forever, la-la-la. I would just, you know, freak myself out into just, you know, I wouldn’t be able to sleep, because I would have so much anxiety.
Erin Maillo: And I think it’s… it’s counterintuitive, you know, to be like, what do you mean, just lay down and…
Erin Maillo: And send love to your gut or your belly, but… There’s science behind that.
Jennifer: Exactly. And, for sure, I mean, that’s… it’s wonderful that you were able to get to that place and receive that wisdom, that learning.
Jennifer: Right?
Erin Maillo: But it was… it was being… it was being open, even though at that time in my life, I kind of thought it was silly. And I was like, I’m not… but I was so desperate that I was kind of willing to try anything. It was like, well, I wasn’t getting a lot of…
Erin Maillo: Help, so… I was like, well, I’ll try it, you know? Like, it can’t.
Jennifer: Why not?
Erin Maillo: hurt. You know, it’s not like I’m taking some weird…
Erin Maillo: you know, pill that I don’t know what it is.
Jennifer: Hmm.
Erin Maillo: So…
Jennifer: Yeah, you listen.
Erin Maillo: into your.
Jennifer: body. I mean, if.
Erin Maillo: And finally.
Jennifer: out there, and you’re like, hey, why not? And that was your body saying, hey, you know, let’s just try this. And now you have evidence, so when your body asks or speaks up, you’re like, oh, okay, well, based on that other thing, that worked. So what else you got, you know?
Erin Maillo: absolutely.
Erin Maillo: Okay, Jennifer, that was so great. I so appreciate you sharing your story with us today, and just your openness and your experience. I’m sure you’re gonna help
Erin Maillo: a lot of women who are even beginning, or whatever stage they are. I have a specific, you know, love for people who are at the beginning, because I remember that stage being so confusing. So I just think to hear, you know, your whole trajectory.
Erin Maillo: It’s gotta be really helpful for people.
Jennifer: I hope so, I hope so. Thank you. Thank you for listening.
Erin Maillo: Of course.
Jennifer: Damn.
Erin Maillo: And I hope you are well very, very soon.
Jennifer: Thank you. I’m so…
Jennifer: I’m on the bend, or whatever, I’m on the mend, it’s right around the bend, I don’t know.
Jennifer: Something like that.
Erin Maillo: Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Erin Maillo: Okay, bye!
Jennifer: Okay, bye, thank you so much.
Erin Maillo: Thank you.
Jennifer: Take care.